I put the same post up on my FB page yesterday. I though you may like to read the response I got back.
Andrew: Hmmm….is this suppose to make me support or condemn Chick Fil A? All of these are legal points of view. I don’t agree with every viewpoint on this list, but I think many of them are worth supporting.
Lanie: I agree, Andrew – I just wanted to point out that it’s not all about organizations who don’t support same sex marriage – it’s a number of other things as well.
Andrew: So you are against the bulk of the issues above?
Lanie: Some not all – I’m more of the shades of grey not black and white definite. But the ones I am opposed to I don’t want to give money to organizations who are against it. I don’t know why Christian values have to single people out. I thought that was about love and support?
Lanie: I ask u this – what if there was an organization who was against you getting married to the person you loved? Would you support it? (Notice he never answers this question in his debate)
Lanie: Again, this is just information gathering and an open discussion of different points of view.
Andrew: I don’t ask that you support any company you disagree with. However, there is a difference between supporting a company, ignoring them because they have different beliefs, and attempting to wage war with them. Most of the comments against Chick Fil A haven’t been a “we don’t agree” they’ve been “they think different from us, so they must be destroyed”. Isn’t that the very attitude the LGBT lobby is suppose to work against? I thought conservatives were suppose to be intolerant. Most of the groups and people speaking out against Chick Fil A have been very, very intolerant.
Andrew: You say this is “just information gathering” and yet you also say in your original post that you need to know what “you’re giving your money to support the next time you bite into a chicken sandwich”. That doesn’t sound like information gathering.
Andrew: I posted my solution to this issue a week or so ago. If you are interested in an open debate (and I always am) I would love your comments on this: http://politicalfriendsblog.com/2012/08/the-political-friends-blog-gay-marriage-solution/
Lanie: I’m with you, Andrew – I don’t condone the rally against other peoples beliefs I was just pointing out the many other things that the organizations support.
Lanie: I’d be happy to read the article you attached for open discussion.
Sharon: Thanks Lanie…I always appreciate information that helps me make good decisions…And to Andrew…I agree wholeheartedly that hating on Chick-fil-A or wishing them ill is exactly what I want them to stop doing to me because I’m gay. I feel no need to put them out of business or have them punished for having an opinion I disagree with, but I do think that it is a perfectly rational decision to withhold my money from them because I dont agree with much of the above. While I dont care what they do with their money… I do care what is done with mine. I also happen to think Chick-Fil-A does some great things and while I hope they continue those, I will be one of those not eating a chicken sandwich for the very reasons Lanie has posted 🙂
Melanie: I think it is safe to say that there is enough vitriol on both sides of this Issue that could be deemed “waging war”. However, when a company opts to donate to organizations who wish to take away my civil rights, that is much different than having a difference of opinion. I know of no “LGBT Lobby” organizations that seek to take away anyone’s right. Conversely, they seek only to fight For the rightist of people.
Melanie: Despite the media spin, I actually support Cfa’s freedom of speech and frankly, I would agree that they contribute and do some good things in the community. Unfortunately, their donations to certain anti-gay organizations is so egregious that it overshadows their positive contributions and preclude me and a multitude of gay, straight, non-warfaring folk from simply contributing to their bottom line which is ultimately used against me.
Andrew: I always support someone’s right to take their dollar elsewhere. That being said, I don’t support a lot of the vitriol against Chick Fil A. You can say it comes from both sides, but I don’t see that. Gay marriage isn’t a Civil Rights issue. Its a definition issue. Marriage has never been seen as something between a man and a man or a woman and a woman. Those who support a traditional definition of marriage aren’t violating your Civil Rights. If you want the legal definition changed, then lobby your representatives to change it. Run for office on a pro-gay marriage platform. Introduce resolutions on voter ballots. But don’t threaten a business for having an opinion as mayors in Chicago and New York have. And don’t accuse people who see differently than you of being “anti-gay”. What you do in your bedroom is your business. I don’t want to know about it REGARDLESS of your sexual orientation.
Melanie: Respectfully, it is a civil rights constitutional issue that is playing out in our court system as we speak. I have not the energy to convince you that this is more than a sophomoric idea about what I do in the bedroom. It is much more than that.
Sharon: Andrew, You are right that the constitiution does not define marriage as man+woman only but DOMA does. This legislation effectively silenced all the people that had ran and won on pro-gay platforms and those elected officials that voted for and legalized gay marriages in some states….but gay marriage isn’t really the point – hate is….some of these organizations that Lanie has listed have lobbied our government to remain silent about human rights violations in other countries where gays are criminalized and killed – just for being gay….the Family Research Council is a certified hate group and supports the criminalization of homosexuality (I seriously thought that idea had left with the Nazi’s but I guess not)….anyway my point is that there is a big difference to me in defending traditional marriage and supporting hate. So I dont care what Chick-Fil-A says about gay marriage, I simply dont want to give money to a place that will send it an organization that thinks I am a criminal and diseased and psychologically disturbed because I love a woman.
(Andrew’s wife): Who “certifies” an aorganization as a hate group?
Charlie: amen to my girls,,,
Charlie: right on Lanie an Sharon!!!!!
Updated with additional comments as they come in:
Sharon:The organization that “certifies” hate groups is the Southern Poverty Law Center….from a NYTimes article “The Southern Poverty Law Center is a nonprofit civil rights organization dedicated to fighting hate and bigotry, and to seeking justice for the most vulnerable members of society. Founded by civil rights lawyers Morris Dees and Joseph Levin Jr. in 1971, the SPLC is internationally known for tracking and exposing the activities of hate groups”
Wait, there’s more….
Andrew: The Southern Poverty Law Center does not have a sterling reputation. If you are going to put this much research into Chick Fil A, you should look at some of the SPLC’s activities as well
Jacob: Wow…what an argument. I think people should learn that disagreeing with someone’s position does not mean that you hate or wish ill will on them. It is an opinion. However, if the justification is that you do not support Chic Fil A because of they donate some money to many groups that is fine. They support my son’s elementary school, a Soldier of mine over seas was adopted by a chil fill program that put kids with parents and he turned out great because of it and lets not forget the myriad of people who use chic fil a to go to college because of their generous scholarship programs. Lastly, they are a Christian organization with traditional Christian belief…are we really shocked this is their position. I EXPECT it to be that. However, if you would like to really put some more meat behind your argument STOP buying gas and all petroleum products. Anything from the ISLAMIC world hates gays. That includes just about every single product you buy. I suppose if you really want to live “hate free” you could make all you need. Where does the line draw and at what point are you hypocrytical attacking one business but not another.?
Sharon:I agree Andrew that SPLC is not perfect and is certainly guilty of many biases and probably worse but in my opinion overall they have the right read on the organizations listed here.Jacob- you raise some great points. As I said before I am not wanting chick-fil-a to go down I am merely making a decision not to have my money get sent to these organizations. That said, I agree wholeheartedly that chick fil a does some awesome stuff. As a Christian I still agree and respect much of what they do and I hope they continue doing it. My intent above was to try and point out that the chick fil a issue isn’t about gay marriage to me. As for being hypocritical the answer is to an extent yes. If I did the research I would probably find most organizations support things I don’t like but 1. Ignorance is bliss 🙂 and 2. Criminalizing homosexuality is more than just a difference in opinion about gay marriage.
Jacob: I do not think Chic Fil A criminalizes being gay. They are a very Christian organization and in the traditional sense they are bound by a way of thinking that has been in place for quite some time and we are looking at the heart of their culture. Religion and belief are things that are deeply personal. The Amish have some weird ideas but I do not detract from the proven culture of good things that come from them. I definetly do not attack them for being devout to their belief. They are simply what they are. Just like your opinions are what you are. I do not hate you for it. However, there has been this increased presence that if you do not agree with certain groups that you are a biggot and that is not really accurate. I almost feel sorry for that mind set because it becomes a prison in an off itself to project these sorts of things on other people and then it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.
Sharon: Chick fil a donates money to a group that lobbies congress to make homosexuality illegal. That is something that seeks to harm me personally. Again, I see a difference between being a Christian and supporting the criminalization of people because they are not like you. I am a Christian and a gay woman and the Jesus Christ I believe in wouldn’t give money to many of the groups above because they are seeking to harm others. And again, a boycott is a reasonable way to draw attention to an issue so I dont see what is so unreasonable about my choice.